Ep. 60: Hood College: Dr. Nisha Manikoth and Dr. Katie Robiadek

On this episode of our college tour, I have the privilege of talking with Dr. Nisha Manikoth and Dr. Katie Robiadek about the Doctoral and Undergraduate Leadership programs at Hood College.

Dr. Nisha Manikoth is Director of the Doctoral Program in Organizational Leadership at Hood College, an independent liberal arts college in the Washington, DC-Baltimore area. The Doctoral Program in Organizational Leadership, designed with a vision of preparing leaders, transforming communities, is a cohort-based program for mid-to-senior-level professionals from diverse backgrounds including business, education, non-profit, military and government and is open to both domestic and international students.

Previously, Dr. Manikoth held faculty roles at George Washington University, University of Maryland Global Campus, and Al-Akhawayn University in Morocco, teaching courses in organization theory, organizational learning, and human resource management. She is founder and principal at Arivu Consulting, LLC, a boutique business consulting company focused on improving business performance by providing strategies for individual and organizational learning. 

Recent publication on Leadership during COVID-19 in Human Resource Development International:
https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rhrd20/25/3?nav=tocList
Doctoral Program website: https://www.hood.edu/graduate/academics/programs/organizational-
leadership-dol

Katherine (Katie) Robiadek (pronounced: Row-By-Deck) is Assistant Professor of Political Science & Global Studies at Hood College where she directs the campus Center for Civic and Community Engagement. Her work focuses on democratic theory and practice, especially in the nonprofit sector. Given her own background in nonprofit administration, part of her efforts now center on students as future nonprofit leaders through coordinating the college's minor in Nonprofit & Civic Engagement Studies. Relatedly, she has collaborated with Drs. Cherie (pronounced: Share-E) Strahan (pronounced: Strawn) and Elizabeth Bennion on research to assess students' democratic engagement through campus organization leadership. (See that research in the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice here: https://doi.org/10.1080/19496591.2019.1648277.)

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robiadek/

Recently co-authored piece on civic education in the Washington Post:
"Jan. 6 hearings show a democracy in crisis. Civic education can help.
Public education once trained young citizens to be part of dem

Chapters

• 18:07 Undergraduate Program
• 20:38 Doctoral Program
• 44:00 Requirements of Doctoral Program
• 45:29 Benefits of Higher Education

Transcript

Kyla Cofer: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Leadership School podcast. I'm your host, leadership and self-care coach, Kyla Cofer. Here at the Leadership School, you'll hear leaders from around the world sharing their stories and expertise on how to lead with balance and integrity. Our goal teach you how to be an extraordinary leader.

Welcome back Leaders. 

Today we are continuing our college tour conversations where I am interviewing faculty and staff from colleges and universities around the country. And today we're talking with professors at Hood College in Frederick, Maryland. So we'll be talking with. Dr. Nisha Manikoth, who is the Director of Organizational Leadership doctoral program at Hood, and then Dr.

Katie Robiadek, who is an assistant professor of Political Science and [00:01:00] Global Studies in the undergraduate level. She directs the Campus Center for Civic and Community Engagement, so we're gonna have a really fantastic conversation about what does it look like to pursue a higher education degree in leadership and what's happening specifically at Hood College.

So take a listen. You might just learn something new. I'm really grateful both of you, for joining me for just a conversation about what's happening on campus at Hood College. And I would love for you to go ahead and if you could both introduce yourselves, um, and talk about, uh, you're here from Hood College in Frederick, Maryland, and you have a really cool leadership program happening, and you just already mentioned Nisha for, um, at the doctoral level.

So why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself. Um, Katie, why don't we start with you and then we'll jump over at to Nisha and then I wanna hear about the program that you're doing and then we'll just go from there. 

Katie Robiadek: Kyla, I'm so excited to be here. Um, I'm Katie Robiadek. I am an assistant professor in the Department of Political Science and Global Studies at Hood College, [00:02:00] um, where I direct our minor in nonprofit and civic engagement studies.

And I, uh, lead the Martha E. Church Center for Civic and Community Engagement, which helps to bridge campus to community through community-based learning, um, and research initiative. 

Kyla Cofer: And

that's something that's been, that's really I think is gonna be a theme of our conversation. I imagine because you guys are really prioritized that at Hood.

It really like bridging that gap between what's happening in the community and, and what people are learning and making sure that the learning is very practical. Absolutely. So yeah, I'm really excited to hear about that. Okay, so over to you Nisha. 

Nisha Manikoth: Thank you. So I'm Nisha Manikoth and I am the director of the doctoral program in organizational leadership here at Hood College.

I'm also an assistant professor of organizational leadership. So in addition to my directorial role, I also teach, uh, I like to put that first because, uh, [00:03:00] that's where the joy comes. Anyway, I've been here at Hood College, uh, this is my second year, so it's not been a long time. But I'm a scholar practitioner, which means that I have decades of experience in human resource development, human resource management, consulting for strategic human resource, uh, development.

And I also have academic experience having taught before coming to Hood at, uh, different universities, I was teaching at George Washington University. I also had faculty roles at University of Maryland Global Campus and for a while I was also teaching in Al-Akhawayn University in Morocco. So it's been an interesting experience, uh, balancing both teaching and practice.

But now I will say this full-time role solely as a professor is interesting, but even in this [00:04:00] role, I get to do some work, engaging with the community, practicing the kind of passion that I have for people development.

Kyla Cofer: I love this. So you, you've got a, the global leadership going on. Can you tell me a, and I wanna get back to both of you, but I wanna hear a little bit more, um, Nisha, about your background working in HR and how you brought that experience over.

Because you said you had a lot of experience in like the business world. Yes. So tell us a little bit more about that experience and then, um, what led you back over to being on campuses, 

Nisha Manikoth: Absolutely. So I'm originally from India, and, um, I did my MBA from a university in India, which is one of the foremost universities for human resource management, and that's XLRI

so I'm from XLRI and soon after XLRI I worked in a consulting firm in India, in [00:05:00] Bangalore, India. For those of you who know the geography of India at that time, India was opening up to transnational multinational companies and new multinational companies were setting up shop in India. And in this consulting role, I had the opportunity to work with organizations like G, GM, 3M , and organizations like that, uh, helping them recruit.

But also helping them establish human resource practices. And um, that was beautiful because not only did I get to see how different organizations functioned, but I also got to invite them to our country and help them understand the cultural nuances of what it is like uh, in India. After my consulting role there, I [00:06:00] worked with Motorola.

And Motorola at that time had an SEI level five software development facility in Bangalore where we were making software for phones and SEI level five means the highest level of quality you can imagine, which at that time there were only two organizations that had it. The first was NASA and the second was the software development center in Bangalore where I was working.

So it was a beautiful experience again, where in human resource management, we learned how to make management sustainably by looking at people, by looking at continuous improvement, by looking at the energy that people could bring. And how to sustain that energy through processes and practices. So [00:07:00] that is the background that I had before I came to the United States.

So I was already working with some of the biggest names of, uh, of American companies, right. And I had got to know, um, human resource management in some of the most respected multinational transnational firms. So after I came to the United States, I did some consulting with Accenture where I was working, uh, with the Department of Education.

And at that time I took a little break when I had my kids and I felt like I needed more time. Uh, raising them. And so what I did was I started consulting with nonprofits and smaller organizations in the community. So I was able to stay current. I was able to, uh, offer my knowledge [00:08:00] in a way that was fulfilling for me, but at the same time gave me time to take care of my family.

When I got back into the workforce, I joined an interesting organization that was very different from anything that I'd seen before. It was a service employee's international union, if you know they are a labor organization, and I was working. To set up the organization development function for S E I U.

Okay. 

Kyla Cofer: I'm, I think you're gonna get there, but I'm really curious about what felt so different about it. 

Nisha Manikoth: About S E I U. Right. Yeah. So I was still then working for technology firms. Uh, I was working for organizations where we call the knowledge economy, right? And here it was more a service field, but also working for

social justice, [00:09:00] and that was not an environment that I'd been in before. And it's interesting because it taught me something. It taught me that you can be working for social justice, but if you're not paying attention, you may be forgetting about social justice in your own lives. . 

Kyla Cofer: Yes. So like doing the very things that you're trying to fight against and work against, they're happening in front of you and you just don't notice it.

Nisha Manikoth: Exactly. So for example, uh, they were talking about professional development is important and, you know, uh, we should be offering that in our unions and for teachers and so on, but professional development was not a priority for them. So that's a simple example, and therefore, organization development for A C I U is about improving the processes for the people who are striving hard to do that for others.

Kyla Cofer: Great. Great. And so through that process, I imagine that's where your [00:10:00] desire came for learning more about like leadership development, organizational development, and then you went on and got your doctorate in that. Yes? 

Nisha Manikoth: That is absolutely right. So all through, whether it was, uh, with GE, uh, and other, uh, companies in India and even in Motorola and here with S E I U leadership development was part of what I did on a day-to-day basis.

So, so I was practicing leadership development, but when I was at S C I U I started thinking about a doctorate and I found out that George Washington University had a program where I could, uh, uh, take classes, uh, in the evenings and work towards a doctorate. Doctorate. So I started my doctoral program at GW with a full-time job, two kids below five

And that was my start to my, [00:11:00] uh, academic career. So 

Kyla Cofer: when I hear stories like that, I'm thinking, wow, this person has must have some level of like, Superhero patience or calm inside of you or something, because my kids are really young and there's, I just don't know how I would've done worked full-time and, and done all that.

So, um, I, I really admire that you were able to do that. But I also acknowledged that you probably had a lot of support around you and you probably had a lot of your own resources, like to be able to manage that level of engagement. , it's really. Really hard,

Nisha Manikoth: I'll tell you that. I kept my full-time job only for a semester.

Okay. And after that, I let go. I had to let go of something. Sure. It wasn't going to be my kids

And I was loving my doctoral program so much. So I was fortunate to get a graduate assistantship. At the university, which was perfect. So I became entrenched in the research that my [00:12:00] faculty was working on and supporting them, and that really helped me grow in academia. I I credit. My mentors at George Washington University, especially Dr.

Maria Chair, who really mentored me and was the chair for my dissertation and just working with her made me, uh, who I am today. 

Kyla Cofer: Let's give a round for good mentors. I mean, come on. And, and I, I think that's part of why we do what we do. Right? And that's why obviously why you guys, you just mentioned how you love the teaching part so much versus your director part role cuz that kind of returning what other people have given to us.

All the people who have just really invested in us. And, to you and, and to me and to you, um, makes such a difference in our lives and we're able to like do that with others through a teaching role. It's really fulfilling. So I'm glad you'd been able to do that. 

Nisha Manikoth: So I never thought that [00:13:00] I would, uh, go into academia when I joined my doctoral program.

I really just wanted to be a better practitioner. But it was Dr. Che who said, she showed me the path for research and to put my own name in terms of the vision that I had. And she encouraged me to go into teaching. She gave me opportunities within, uh, GW and that's how I grew. And I just began to love it so much, um, that I realized this is what I'd like to do.

And helping doctoral students, it's something very different because helping doctoral students, let me just tell you, in our program, preparing leaders, transforming communities, And that's what connection, yeah, that's the goal. That the goal is to just help them transform communities however they, they think communities are, and that's why I think my role here [00:14:00] is so special.

Kyla Cofer: Well, you know, before we even, excuse me, before we even started, you had mentioned how you said your weekends were a little different because your Saturdays were spent, uh, teaching. Um, because of doctoral students, they're doing this outside of full-time jobs. So Saturday, a whole Saturday of classes is the norm and you're here investing in that.

Um, but that's part of it. What I really have enjoyed in my conversation with you prior to this particular call is just hearing so clearly how Hood is all about making that impact in the community and teaching people to improve themselves and grow themselves. It's not just about like trying to find the next CEO, it's about really engaging that community.

And is that, is that really Katie? Maybe you can talk on that a little bit. Yeah. 

Katie Robiadek: Well, I also love teaching and Ed Hood and I work more with undergraduates, so I'm in a different program than Nisha. Um, so I'm in political science. My background's [00:15:00] a little bit different or the same in some sense. I was in the nonprofit community working in administration in various organizations, like a community foundation, an arts council, higher education before coming back for my doctorate.

And through that process, it's really where the rubber met the road of my undergraduate. Kind of learning about political theory and politics and then working in the nonprofit sector and as a leader with others to do things like implement a cultural economic development plan for regional, um, economic strategies, uh, in the state I was working in at the time.

As one example. And that's where I really saw passion come alive, um, in other people and students I was working with as a nonprofit leader, students who were interning with my organizations and their ability, to plug into the kinds of initiatives we were doing in the community and to really take their learning to the next level.

And that's what I really love about being at Hood. and working in the [00:16:00] place, uh, in the programs that I'm working in now is seeing students and helping them connect with the Frederick nonprofit community through our nonprofit summit that you know about Kyla, cuz you were invited to be our very wonderful guest speaker at an event recently and how we met.

So, so that has led me to really focus, even in my research on thinking about how do we do leadership not only in. Programs for leadership, like the doctoral program of organizational leadership, but also how do we do think about student leadership outside the classroom? So the kinds of experiences in leadership that students get by participating in campus organizations, right where they.

Are the ones implementing events and deciding on what they are gonna work on together outside of the classroom. And so that has really informed some of the research that I've been a part of in terms of a national survey of student leaders that has asked student leaders of campus organizations about [00:17:00] the skills that they feel that they've gained and the efficacy that they feel they've gained through leading campus organizations outside the classroom, and how can we capture that at institutions like Hood and other places.

And how can we recognize student leadership, not just through formal programs, right? Where you get a degree, um, in leadership, um, some kind of minor major, right? But also are there ways that we can recognize that leadership development? Still being rigorous and formal, but as it happens outside the classroom.

Um, and this survey that I mentioned, the National Survey of Student Leaders is now housed at the Bliss Institute at the University of Akron, and we're going to be implementing another round of that and really thinking about how we can inform the work of campuses to recognize student leadership outside the classroom in very meaningful ways. So I'm really excited about the possibilities for that as and the possibilities of people like you, helping students think about leadership [00:18:00] outside the classroom through things like this podcast. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah. So you had this, what I'm hearing is you had this passion for nonprofits.

You were already in the nonprofit world, and then you, um, went and remind me what your PhD is in Political science. Okay. Political science. So through that, um, you're bringing the, those leader, like the leadership survey and those skills into the undergraduate program at Hood because of your excitement about actually having been in the community and leading these nonprofits.

And so you're helping pave that way. Yeah. 

Katie Robiadek: And, and plugging into things like our minor on campus in nonprofit and civic engagement studies. So working with students in that minor program to, to work with internships in our local nonprofit community mainly, um, and to develop, um, kind of their interests by working on projects with organizations that have impact for us, not only as a campus, but as a a wider community.

And so, those [00:19:00] kinds of experiences, I think are the kinds of things I get really excited about because then students make these connections and we build these networks. We meet people and we, and then I can bring those people into my classroom. I can bring nonprofit leaders into my classes on philanthropy and civic life, and these local leaders can talk to students about their professional experience.

And it's just, it all builds on itself. So it's this kind of, Way of giving and collaborating that I think is so special about thinking about leadership and in the nonprofit. Community especially. Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: And like how you just mentioned, like, uh, and we talk about this all the time on this podcast, is how leadership, it's not in one area, right?

You're not like, I, I'm a leader because I have a doctorate in leadership. , you know, you're like, I, I have that skill, but also because, well, I don't but , but I'm thoughts talking about a person in general. Someone might have that skill, but also because of any field has leaders in it, in the political science field.[00:20:00] 

Certainly you're gonna have leadership roles in nonprofit worlds. Certainly you're gonna have leadership roles. So it's like taking all of this and putting it together. So what does this really look like on campus at Hood? Like, you know, how are you making those connections with students? Um, your doctoral students, they're from the community.

Um, people who are just really wanting to improve their leadership studies and their leadership skills just grow that, those skills within themselves. So how are you guys doing this on a practical level, like what do the courses look like that you're teaching, what do the programs that you're engaging the students in?

And, um, I'll let either of you, you choose how you wanna take that. . 

Nisha Manikoth: I can start because I also want to make a connection here. Before I go into the doctoral program, so you correctly, a, you saw how invested Hood is in connecting with the community, and that's an astute observation that you made because even in our vision statement, our mission and vision, we talk [00:21:00] about preparing graduates to lead purposeful lives of responsibility, leadership, service.

And civic engagement. So sometimes we have all these words, but really how do we put them into practice? Right? And all those, uh, initiatives that Katie is talking about at the undergraduate level, that's what makes Hood what it is. That's really the soul of of Hood. Our core values are hope, opportunity.

Obligation and democracy. H O O D. Ah, 

Kyla Cofer: nice. Nice. That's helpful. Help. Makes it easy to remember. I'm a huge fan of those mnemonics . 

Nisha Manikoth: It's very clever. But also the importance for obligation. Right. Uh, and democracy, so important, and [00:22:00] you'll see that woven into everything, uh, that we do here at Hood. So I let Katie talk about what, I mean Katie did start about what's being done at the undergraduate level, but let me talk about the doctoral program now in how we actually make this happen.

So, where should I start the theory or the practice? , 

Kyla Cofer: I, let's talk about the practice. Okay. Because I think that I, I feel like I have a pretty under good understanding of what the theory is. Yes. Especially when you've talked about the, that mission statement and your value statement. Yes. Which I love me a good mission and vision statement, like, because we, I think we, we write them sometimes thinking, oh, it's just something that goes out there, but it really.

Words really do define like who we are as organizations, but I think they're really important to have as individuals as well, and to know like, what is your mission? And so I appreciate that you were purposeful in the word purpose. Like you, you have that in your statement there, but it's on purpose. Like we are moving forward with, um, intention being intentional about what we [00:23:00] do.

And I think that those are really, really valuable to have. So if we understand like the theoretical, like what does this practically look like for you guys? Uh, because my goal here really is to just give our listeners an idea of what's happening on campus. Um, what are schools around the country doing, um, in the leadership field and or tying that leadership field over to the practical, you know, like you were mentioning, you know, Katie, you're not teaching.

Specific, like this is how you lead courses, but like those themes and threads are in all of the courses that you're teaching. So how are we tying these things together? Um, and what do those look like specifically at your school? 

Nisha Manikoth: So shall I start with the doctoral program? Go for, yes. 

Kyla Cofer: I would love to start there.

Nisha Manikoth: Okay. So you still remember what we are about, right? Preparing leaders, transforming communities. And so every leader that comes into our program is really thinking about how does this [00:24:00] education, how does this doctorate help them in going back and doing something different? In fact, that's one of the application, uh, essays that they have to submit to get admitted to the program.

So we really attract people. Who are not coming here just for a doctorate, but to do something meaningful, to go back and change the worlds they live in, change the work that they, uh, are a part of. Change the communities that they're a part of. So, cause 

Kyla Cofer: getting your doctorate's no joke, right? It's not like you just go to one day a class on a Saturday, like it's

It takes a lot of work and a lot of effort and intention, you know, and, and to go and be willing to put all of your resources in and energy into, into this practice, you have to tie that into some meaning behind that. Absolutely. What's the purpose of going forward and doing this? And you said 

Nisha Manikoth: meaning, and that's, that is the key word.

Because every project that they. It has to have personal meaning for them. So [00:25:00] even if they're looking into theory of leadership or theory about human resource management or theory about, uh, organizational change, they are connecting it to that idea that has the most meaning for them in their practical lives.

Right. So they are connecting it to how do I make change, for example, in, uh, the veterinary field by, uh, understanding compassion fatigue better. Or they're thinking about how do I make meaning as a leader by applying it to schools where I can understand. Inequities that take place and do something to change it.

So they're constantly thinking about how to take that theory and make a change, take theory, make a change. So [00:26:00] everything is connected to that practical aspect of transforming communities. So we start with a leadership class, which is just leadership theories but the coursework goes, uh, around a few pillars that we have, and that's mindful leadership.

It's stewardship, it's community and sustainability. And each of these ideas are so important in their coursework, but because it ties them to thinking about not just the theories. Not just what they do, but how is what they do impacting the larger world? The systems thinking, you know, how is it, how does every change they make?

How does every ripple that they make have an effect in the larger scheme of things? So 

Kyla Cofer: I'm trying to think of like how [00:27:00] this plays out in a class. So when you're teaching the doc, are all doctorate students there on your Saturdays and your evenings? Everybody comes on the Saturday for these classes? Some Saturdays, yes.

And is it kinda like a block of classes? Yes. So, , I'm just curious what exactly those classes are titled. Like do you have the leadership theory course and then in that class you're talking about like the history of leadership and all of these theories, and then you're tagging that to their project and their, uh, dissertation and, and trying to figure out how to weave all those things together.

What does this look like? Right. Just for, for someone who doesn't have a degree in, because I don't have a doctorate in leadership, so I'm just so curious, what does this look like on a daily basis? What classes am I taking? If I were gonna go get the, my doctorate program? 

Nisha Manikoth: So we have core leadership courses, which is, uh, courses like leadership, human capital change and so on.

So there are a few leadership courses. Then there are a few methodology courses. How do you do qualitative research? How do you listen to people [00:28:00] exactly what you're doing, Kyla, in terms of how do you ask right questions? How do you follow up with questions that make them talk more about what you want to hear.

Right? So you are doing everything that we would be talking about in a qualitative research class where, uh, we help them think about the right questions to ask, starting with what you really want to get out of this. Yeah. There's a research question. And then what are the questions that you need to think about to get answers to that research?

So just like qualitative research, we have courses for quantitative research where they understand how do you implement a survey? Same thing. How do you ask the right questions to get answers to what you want to? Get answers too, because you can ask a question thinking it's giving you an answer, but the way you phrased it could get you a whole different, uh, answer, right?

And you think that you [00:29:00] have the answer, but you really measured something totally different. , 

Kyla Cofer: and then you have to go back and do it all again. we've been down that road. Yes. . Yes. 

Nisha Manikoth: So it's the psychometric properties of the scale. So we teach them about quantitative research and how to make sure you have construct validity, big terms.

But it's basically what you and I are talking about in terms of making sure that you are capturing what you intend to capture. So, as I said, there are these core leadership courses. There are these research methodology courses, and then there are the dissertation process courses, and that's where Hood College Doctoral program in organizational leadership is unique.

It's unique because these dissertation process courses really help you through the process of the dissertation. Most of the doctoral programs out there, [00:30:00] they give you the theory, they give you the quantitative, qualitative, and then you are on your own. And that's why there are so many ABDs. Do you know what an is?

Kyla? I don't. I, but dissertation. Oh, yes, 

Kyla Cofer: yes, I did know that. It's just been a while since I heard it. . So 

Nisha Manikoth: they've done all the coursework, but at the end of the day, you cannot be doctor until you finish your dissertation. And all these online universities and, you know, make it easy kind of places. They give you the opportunity to finish your coursework, but they really don't help you with the dissertation.

And that's where we are different. We had in, uh, the last, for the last graduation, we had, I wanna say 17 outta the 18. Uh, in that cohort actually walk be hooded with their doctorates. That's unthinkable. Unbelievable. I have not seen, it's very successful. [00:31:00] I have not seen it anywhere else. So we really help them, as I said, through those courses and the faculty support.

The faculty here are so dedicated. You see, Katie, you see me. Really what gives us joy is working with our students. . So true. Okay. Can I just add one more thing? So I know you were asking what is a practical, how does it look in terms of what the students do? So in addition to these courses, we offer them opportunities to connect with the community.

So, um, I know Katie and you met at an event in Frederick, similar to that, we have events just for doctoral students. We invite nonprofits to campus and they get to talk to our leaders and see if they would be interested in board positions [00:32:00] because we have mid to senior level leaders in our program. So it's different from undergraduates or early career professionals who may be in graduate school.

Here we have senior people and they want to give. and so we match them up with nonprofits in the area, so they take board leadership positions and that is an incredible advantage. Benefits to our nonprofits. 

Kyla Cofer: So I started this podcast because I wanted to learn and grow in my leadership journey, and I have been so incredibly inspired by the guests and the conversations, and especially recently with this college tour, I've really learned so much.

So once the interview ends, I actually keep the conversation going because I have found that sometimes the richest part of the conversation is when we feel like the interview's over and we can just kind of have a relaxed, more casual conversation. . Also, if you've noticed, if you've been following this podcast for some time, I used to ask every guest two questions.

[00:33:00] What does Integrity mean to them and what does balance look like to them? Well, I haven't stopped asking those questions. We're just putting those over on our Patreon page. So go check it out at patreon.com/leadership school, and for $6 and 50 cents a month, you can support this podcast. It takes a lot to produce every single episode.

Honestly, I could use a little bit of support. So anything that you're able to contribute would really mean a lot to me and would able to help me to continue to bring these high caliber guests in to have conversations on what does it look like to be an extraordinary leader, and how do we practically.

Do that. So those conversations are continuing over at patreon.com/leadership school where I'm asking guests some extra questions, some bonus questions, and you'll get some bonus content over there. So be sure to go check it out. Thanks so much for your support and thanks for so much for subscribing, listening and sharing this podcast.

It really does mean a lot, and I'm so honored to show up here in your podcast [00:34:00] feed. You know what, I was gonna ask Katie about that actually too with the undergraduate program, cuz you mentioned really connecting undergraduate students to nonprofits in the community. Are they getting involved in board member work and like learning about what's happening on nonprofit boards, um, or taking some education classes on that?

I know I've talked to a couple of campuses who have done some of that type of work. I'm just curious about what you guys, the approach that you guys are taking with that. 

Katie Robiadek: Yeah. Um, so it's more informal. We have a lot of opportunities for internships with nonprofits, for volunteering with nonprofits. Our career center here is really wonderful at connecting students with volunteer opportunities at nonprofits.

And we also see that nonprofits come to us because of the way that we have these, um, relationships built between the campus and community that we have had nonprofits who are looking for student involvement on board. Actually, uh, put out a call and students respond to that as well as, um, having students work on things like [00:35:00] grant committees.

So for our Frederick County Community Foundation, there are opportunities for students to perhaps serve as a grant reviewer for those programs. And so we do see students serving nonprofits in different capacities than mearly. Volunteering or interning, but also in terms of leadership taking on those board roles or taking on roles on committees.

So that is something that we're interested to expand. And Kyla to go back to. an earlier question now that Nisha's probably convinced you to get a doctorate and uh, in organizational leadership,

Kyla Cofer: you're fun. Um, it's definitely under consideration. . 

Katie Robiadek: Okay. Alright. We've done our job. Um, teaching leadership, I think earlier you were saying kind, how does that show up?

So we obviously have this wonderful doctoral program which is really focused on practitioner. But it also, we don't have a leadership studies major at the undergraduate level, to my knowledge. Other places do, and that's fantastic. We don't have a leadership minor, but we do have courses like ethics and leadership that can kind [00:36:00] of be built into other programs such as the minor for nonprofit and civic engagement studies.

that course in ethics and leadership could be built into those types of programs to help students think about if I want to go into a nonprofit sector, I want to take a leadership role through my position with a nonprofit, thinking about the ethical components. And there's a lot of that ethical thinking going on, ethics and leadership, um, through our philosophy department and work of Karen Hoffman here.

But, but something I've also done has been to bring in my political theory courses. I teach people like Machiavelli. , we've heard of him. Uhhuh . He's this wrote this little book, the Prince, and he tells Princes how to rule their principalities. And I have my students read that. And it is an ethical text, right?

But what I've done, it's not a course on leadership, it's a course on political theory. And so, We're thinking about leaders in government, but through a historical perspective. I don't know the last time you've read Machiavelli. Um, 

Kyla Cofer: so it's been a very long time and [00:37:00] I'm not sure I understood it the first time around

Katie Robiadek: Well, and so this is a great thing that you can do in any course that's talking about. Any ethical component, like leading government in the 15 hundreds as Machiavelli was doing in his book, the Prince Bringing in simultaneously another text that students have to read and in my course it was a leadership framework for campus that was built around values and capacities for leaders on campus and reading it alongside.

The kind of ethical framework that Machiavelli gives us to think about leadership back then in his day, Machiavelli's day and leadership today. Um, and how those frameworks might look different and, and the role that democracy plays. Um, Because that's something Misha alluded to. At Hood, one of our core values is democracy.

And the way that I think about leadership, and the way I like to think about it when I teach political theory and how to [00:38:00] govern and the ethics of governing, is to place a democratic lens on that and say, what is specifically democratic? Small D here, small D leaders in a democracy, right? What does Democratic small D leadership look like, right?

If you are participating in a democracy, , should your type of leadership reflect democratic values, right? The way that we make decisions, should that be democratic in a democratic society? Should your ethical guideposts be democratic principles? Right? Equality, right? So, so that's something I'm really interested in.

You can get good leaders, but they might be real, you know, they might get you to an outcome, but they might not do it in such a good way. And Machiavelli tells us this. So should we think about that in a democracy? Do we want just any kind of leadership when we think about ethical leadership? In a democracy, should it be guided by democratic values?

And that's [00:39:00] something I think can be incorporated in any course that talks about any kind of leaders or any kind of leadership with an ethical component. And I'm really. Passionate about that. 

Kyla Cofer: Yes. Well, because what this is, what higher education is doing is it's creating critical thinkers, right? It's instead of just showing up and just doing what we're doing and doing the way we've done it, or the way we learn from our parents or whatever, it's, it's taking the work that we're doing through the lens of critical thinking.

Like, let's ask more questions and then, Taking it from more questions to better questions. Like you were saying earlier, it's just how are we asking the question to get the answer that the correct answer, the answer that's gonna propel us forward to the next thing instead of just the answer that we wanna hear, you know, or an answer that tells us nothing we may already know.

You know, like how, what's giving us the good picture and, and really opening our level of thinking a little bit. Broader. I don't know if that even made sense, but it did in my head. , like really, like really just using [00:40:00] those critical thinking skills. , you know, I didn't, I didn't really grow up with a lot of critical thinking skills except for maybe a few problems solving here and there.

Um, and a little bit, you know, in college or in, in high school. A little bit from my family environment, but not like, really. Well, we're gonna take this and think about all the different aspects of it and really try and push us forward. And so I remember going into college and like how these skills just really grew and how I, you can see someone.

Who's had that higher education because of the way they approach a problem and the way that they're thinking more critically about a problem. And I think this is really beneficial in both the undergraduate and the doctoral level. And you're just taking it one step further each time. Right. So explain to me.

For the uninitiated, let's just do a simple breakdown. What is the difference between an undergraduate level, a master's level, and a doctorate level? Like, could I just, you know, get my GED and then decide to go straight for my doctorate? What's the, the con against doing that? Like, why should I move [00:41:00] up and when am I gonna get, how am I gonna get that love foundational level at the, um, undergraduate level?

So maybe you guys could just talk about some of like those basics of, um, why are we getting higher education? Like why does this matter? . 

Katie Robiadek: Um, I just wanna jump in before I let Nisha, um, talk maybe about the levels, uh, the different degree levels to. To your point about critical thinking and being able to see multiple perspectives, something we know about democratic decision making is that the more voices and perspectives you get in a room to think through solutions to a problem, we know you get better decision outcomes, right?

So the more perspectives you have involved in decision making, there's a lot of good political science, literature and decision making models in different disciplines on inclusivity in decision making processes. And so we know we get better outcomes, we have more diverse perspectives in a room making a decision based on a lot of these models.

So, um, to your point about critical thinking, Actually being a Democratic leader, taking decisions in a Democratic style, [00:42:00] including more voices, more diverse voices, more perspectives overall in terms of numbers and quantity actually can help us think better as a group. We think better together, and that is part of what makes democracy.

Different, um, in terms of how we make decisions as a society. So, um, so being able to navigate that as part of leadership, being able to lead those processes. What does that mean? But I just wanted to jump on that really. 

Kyla Cofer: Excellent. That's really important. No, I'm so glad you did because, um, I, I think that's a huge.

Point of leadership, um, is how do you problem solve, right? This is not, I'm not talking about conflict resolution. I'm talking about how do we come, um, and we see a problem and we, we attack the problem and not the person. Like how do we do that? Um, and sometimes we're not very good at it. , you know, um, even just on an individual basis or, but even on the more global basis, you, it's so easy to see how, uh, we want to attack a character and not a problem, or we want to, um, mud sling, [00:43:00] you know, and, and instead of really trying to propel us forward into something else and, and there, that can be very challenging.

Um, and it takes good leaders who can bring people to a table and work towards a problem. . 

Nisha Manikoth: And I think that's where professors like Katie come in because it's a different skill, it's a different, uh, ability to be able to teach undergraduates, but she has it. I don't, I'll tell you, uh, to be able to take those young minds straight out of high school and help them develop critical thinking.

See how beautifully she described about democracy and getting the voices in the room. That's the kind of thinking we want our young, uh, adults to have. And if they go into the world without that, they'll find themselves unprepared. And that's what education is doing in places like Hood at the undergraduate level.[00:44:00] 

Now, if you were to ask me, do I need anyone who comes into a doctorate to have an undergraduate degree and a graduate degree? Maybe, maybe not. What is most important is their experience. Their experience is what is helping build connections to theory when they come into the doctorate doctoral program.

Undergraduate and graduate level preparation is necessary to engage in the rigors of that academic journey. So if you ask me why do they need a master's degree, right? It is to be familiar with the rigors of how do you do this, the processes of engaging in academic journey. And technically somebody without that could have it because of their experience.

But you will see all applications asking for requirements, a master's [00:45:00] degree, and that's why. But if you can prove to me that you have the process knowledge to engage in those kind of rigors, we could make an exception to someone who is brilliant in their thinking. They're critical thinking. They're, uh, discipline and engaging in research and so on.

We, we, we could accept that person into a doctorate. That would take, take breaking some rules, but they could do it.

Kyla Cofer: So tell me this, how are each of you different for having a doctorate degree? How did it, interesting. 

Katie Robiadek: How did it, such a good question, , 

Kyla Cofer: how did it change you? How did it affect you? How did it, um, what, what did it do for you having that, that higher education degree, and maybe not even just the doctorate degree, but starting with the undergraduate level.

Like how did it change you going to school and getting higher education? 

Nisha Manikoth: Who's going first? Katie. 

Katie Robiadek: Nisha, you're gonna [00:46:00] go c me. That wasn't very democratic, was it? It was decision. 

Nisha Manikoth: No, I can go, cause I have some thoughts on this. So when I went into, uh, my, um, undergraduate degree and like, I told you I grew up in India, so if you were a good student, you went either into engineering or into medicine.

That's it. Okay. So, Then the young Misha decided she wanted to do something different, not what everybody told her. So even though I was uh, uh, one of the top students, I said, I'm not gonna be an engineer because everybody's telling me to. I'm not gonna be a doctor because everybody's telling to, I had no idea what I was going into, but I went into management.

I really had no idea. So at that stage, it's just exploring and, but then you see something. That really talks to you, and that's where experience comes in, where you add your heart and your [00:47:00] soul and your, uh, of course your brain into what you're doing. And it makes meaning for you. It makes meaning for you, right?

And so by the end of your master's degree, you think, you know, something, And you're going to the world and you're practicing the these things and you feel so confident and you're at top of the world and at some point you made it decide to go for a doctorate because you think you wanna go. You want knowledge more than what you have seen around you.

You wanna expand your horizons, you wanna know something even more, and then you come into a doctorate. And you see the expanse of knowledge around you and you realize how little you know. 

Kyla Cofer: Right. Oh, that's what I love about learning, uh, , you know, especially when we're teenagers or if you're in, you know, six, like my child, you think you know really everything and you [00:48:00] know more than the people around you, and you're just so smart.

And the, the older you get, the more, the less you know. Yeah. Is isn't that weird? It's just the older you get, the less Yes.

Every single conversation I have is an exercise in learning something to me. And I think if we approach life as just always being curious, we can never, ever go wrong. But it, it just, learning is and, and growing in that way. It is just, I don't know, it's just so fun to me. . It's so fun. You're just, life's never boring that way.

You're always, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm always consuming something, but for me it's always it. , I'm so curious. I have to be consuming more information and, and knowledge. 

Nisha Manikoth: And you're a doctor already. . 

Katie Robiadek: Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, I think for me it is the humility too. A doctoral program, uh, the whole process really makes you run up against your own limits and you have to be willing to learn new skills and to [00:49:00] maybe take on a project and not do it sufficiently and redo it or figure out a new question to answer.

And so it's an iterative process and you have. . You know, a lot of people talk about learning how to fail Well, and sometimes that's a difficult thing to do, and especially when you're invested in what you're doing. Right? And so I think a doctoral program has that built into it because there's always something you don't know, an intervening variable that might come up.

So you have to have that, um, humility, that curiosity, you're saying, Kyla, which also for me has to really be in the context of a conversation. The, the great thing about a doctorate. and a doctoral and a community as you go through that process is you have a, an intellectual community to really, um, explore your curiosity and to harvest the wisdom of your peers and if you're teaching, to really bring your research into the classroom and harvest the wisdom of your students.

You know, I work with an undergraduate population that's very diverse. They're all different ages, all different [00:50:00] backgrounds in terms of demographics, in terms of life experience. Um, so it's really, um, just a wonderful way to gain more perspective on the questions that you are interested in, the passions that you have.

And so there's that communal aspect of going through a doctoral program and building an intellectual community. And you know, I'm still friends with some of my graduate school colleagues and we commiserate over the, you know, the, the process. That's not always easy, right? Again, you're running up against your own limits in a lot of ways and being humbled because there's just a lot you don't know, can't know, won't know.

or there's the excitement that you are building knowledge that you are on the, the kind of cutting edge and shifting paradigms. And you know, I think a lot of us are thinking about that. Um, with the pandemic that happened, how do we, you know, take our fields forward in light of this experience? How do we take our teaching forward in light of this experience, the industry of higher education's changing.

Um, and so really it is a great, [00:51:00] you know, it's scary. Okay. It's humbling. Yes. Um, but there's a community built into that process and there are great. Mentors as Nisha raised earlier, and Kyla, I know that you're, um, even what you're doing as a podcast, not even, but I mean, it's wonderful what you're doing, giving people kind of access to, to people who are doing this work so that it's um, it's accessible, right?

Um, to learn about leadership and, and what's going on in, in different places through, through various forms like podcast. 

Kyla Cofer: So, uh, the, the, we are kind of wrapping up here, but I'm curious if there's anything else you wanna make sure that you mentioned before we end And I have a few extra questions that, um, I'll send, we'll, we'll ask at the very, very, very end.

So if you are a Patreon subscriber, , you can get the fun questions at the end. But, um, I, I just, we wanna make sure that you haven't left anything unsaid. Is there anything you would like. To tell our audience about, um, 

Nisha Manikoth: go ahead, Nisha. Yes. So I [00:52:00] wanna talk about connecting with the community. I wanna give one more example, which is so important that I did not get to earlier.

So, Hood College has entered into a partnership with the Frederick Chamber, and we are partnering with the Leadership, Frederick Leadership Development Program. Okay. So like every county has the leadership development part, right. So the, it's called Leadership, Frederick County and Hood is providing the leadership development curriculum for the program.

So we just started it this year and. Exciting as it is for me to have designed the program and implemented it for their cohort this year. What's even more exciting is the fact that it gives our alumni and our students the opportunity to engage in that leadership development. As coaches and core learners [00:53:00] supporting the leadership development of the, uh, learners in that program.

So that's another way that we are giving back to the community, strengthening the community and learning from the community. . 

Kyla Cofer: So really is like taking that very, very practical and saying, we, we mean it when we're saying get engaged in the community. Cuz because we're bringing the community here. Like we're, we're being involved.

We're not just doing our critical thinking here on campus. We're , we're taking our critical thinking and we're applying it, and then we're supporting each other in that. And that's really, really beautiful. Wow. . 

Katie Robiadek: And I would say my last words, I mean, so there's the critical thing of it, there's also the ethical component, and then again, I put the democratic lens on it, right?

Are the democratic values small d things like freedom and equality rights, are those responsibilities leading kind of, um, guiding, you know, our, our leadership activities and in a place like the US and, and that's, you know, where we are here in [00:54:00] Frederick, Maryland. Just getting people. I think it would be wonderful to remind all people that are participating in a democracy or you know, that live in a democracy.

and even just all people who are people we're leaders in some way, whether it's your family, whether it's your faith community, whether it's your campus community. I mean, we are all leaders, right? In some way. And so it's just, I'm really grateful that we're in a community like Frederick, Maryland, where, where people recognize that and, and especially for students where students are seen as co-producers of knowledge with community organizations as they move forward, projects that have real impact on real people. And so I just, I wanna encourage people to think of themselves as leaders, right? It's not about the role you hold, it's not about right, the office you're in, but it's about you as a person and the kind of person that you are, um, and what you do and how you have an [00:55:00] impact.

Kyla Cofer: Yeah. No, I love that you use that word, co-producers. Um, like we, we are just, we are working together and, um, I love how no matter how many conversations I have for this podcast, , that, that this theme just always comes through of, um, we are all leaders and I just will never forget my own experience of someone be calling me a leader and me just kind of staring at them like, what do you mean I'm not a leader?

like, I'm, I don't have that ability. I don't have that gift. I'm not really in my culture, it was, I'm not. A man, I don't have the authority cuz I'm a woman. And so there's all all, you know, so many cultural levels to um, what does leadership mean? But we all have leadership roles somewhere. Um, and so when we are talking about like going and getting education in it, it's really just how are we on, how do we wanna advance those roles and do our own personal development work so that we can show up in the best way possible.

Katie Robiadek: Yeah, we all have, uh, we are all rich with leadership capacity or [00:56:00] potential. And so if we could all kind of tap into each other's, we could co-produce the future. 

Kyla Cofer: I love that. I love that. I love that. Wow. Yeah. It's such a great way to end you guys. Thank you so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation.

I'm just really grateful for your time and for your sharing, um, your information about your school with me. And, um, I love hearing what's happening on our east coast and, um, hope that our students are, our listeners will get a chance to interact with Hood and, um, with either of you in some way. Hey, thank you so much for listening.

If you've liked what you heard and you want some more tools and resources to help you on your journey, go check out kyla cofer.com/free stuff.